Missing Kayaker

SAFETY FIRST!! Please read as no fish is worth dying for.
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Franko
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Re: Missing Kayaker

Post by Franko »

Love the conversation guys, as mentioned it is all about education and what primary yak use is. I have converted to a PA recently from an outback, my first kayak was brought over a tinnie due to safety. To fish primarily PPB by myself in a small tinnie seemed more of a hazard than a SOT yak. Side chop and being thrown out was a concern even if it capzied i couldnt up right a tinnie. Now I have ended up in a PA due to 90 percent of my fishing being done in fair conditions inshore or lakes casting lures. Do I believe I can go offshore "YES" I can also re-enter the yak and upright it if hit by a green one. I never fish without a pfd, plb, vhf or mobile and always dress and prepare myself to end up in the drink. I have learnt 75 percent from this forum. If I had to paddle the PA due to drive failure I would more than likely call for help if I was further out than a swimable distance. I am inspired to go offshore but would not venture out unless other yakkers are around the same area safety is my first priority. Will I take the PA offshore? most certainly I have been doing 15-20 km most sessions to train the legs and the mind, I would only attempt serious offshore when the weather permits. I have been offshore once and loved it but it was only Anglsea so hardly Portland or Port fairy. I would certainly and have investagated upgrading to an AI if 50 percent of my fishing ended up being off shore or rough sea locations. In conclusion its all about fishing within your limits and your chosen crafts. Respect the sea and always carry correct safety equipment as a kayak fishing community we should all voice our concerns and look out for others and hope that we can stop someone from making a fatal choice.
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Yako
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Re: Missing Kayaker

Post by Yako »

Every person is different in physique, fitness level, knowledge & confidence. There is no room personally for timidity yakking in many places (I'm not suggesting stupidly in the face of adverse conditions).
Let's remember there is NO vessel that is/was made that can tame the sea/waters. We enter those realms on it's terms, so no matter how much swagger & testosterone one has, we can get taken out very easily no matter how good or well prepared you & your fancy sea kayak/surf ski, Hobie, Jackson, Viking, Native etc are.
As Frank says, we have as much safety gear as possible, practice, keep fit & learn more & try not fish alone - not much more can one ask for.
With the leaks in the PA for example, yes I'm annoyed Hobie hasn't sorted it out, but I've made my own hatch seals & I have more flotation in the hull. Yes it's a fat pig when almost full with water but if you keep your calm & watching waves you can still pedal it in high wind - done it. Ok it was only .05-07 kmh and the water swishing in the hull isn't comforting. So yes I've been there & refused to panic or throw in the towel & overcame. Perhaps if I were more nervous, 10 years older, less fit it could've gone sideways. But as Frank said, "I would have deployed my Epirb or PLB if it came to the crunch.
Going offshore you're supposed to carry extra oar- I carry a spare drive leashed behind me after experiencing a tricky situation a while back on my own :D
Let's go Fishin :thumbsup:
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4liters
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Re: Missing Kayaker

Post by 4liters »

Yakass wrote:The point that some of us are making here is that other models (particularly in the right hands) would handle those sorts of conditions better. So with that in mind I would suggest that this is one of the best reasons that people should be mindful about how far they venture from land in kayaks that are known to under-perform in rough conditions, especially when they haven't mastered righting and reboarding their kayak efficiently.
Out of interest, how far in distance or travel time from land would you recommend the owner of a flat water yak like a PA limit themselves to? Assuming you are proficient at remounting, have all the safety gear and all that sort of thing..
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cheaterparts
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Re: Missing Kayaker

Post by cheaterparts »

Yakass wrote:The point that some of us are making here is that other models (particularly in the right hands) would handle those sorts of conditions better. So with that in mind I would suggest that this is one of the best reasons that people should be mindful about how far they venture from land in kayaks that are known to under-perform in rough conditions, especially when they haven't mastered righting and reboarding their kayak efficiently.
4liters wrote: Out of interest, how far in distance or travel time from land would you recommend the owner of a flat water yak like a PA limit themselves to? Assuming you are proficient at remounting, have all the safety gear and all that sort of thing..
Our first trip to SWR Shane was using his PA and a couple of days were ugly - and one 1 day we spent a very short time on the water ( it was really ugly )a couple of things that showed and Shane was a very experienced PA operator that was how much work he had to put in to keep the kayak up right

I was using the prowler 4.3 and even side on to the waves it took little effete to stay upright maybe a little bracing but not much really - big seas slows everyones speed down but the PA and other wide boats become really slow as it becomes more work just to stay upright

funny enough but not for Dave was him falling off twice on the way in and he was on a revo - we were side by side on a following sea and these 2.5 - 3 meter choppy swell with nice little white breaking tops - on the prowler it tracked fine or cause I had a paddle in hand and probably braced a bit when required just out of habit
Dave on the other hand his revo a twice just snapped sideways and dumped him in the water - I think its a problem with peddle craft in general that with no paddle in hand you have nothing to lean on or brace so if the rudder comes out of the water they can quite quickly turn on you
So myself I'm not sold on any of the pedal yak ranges for off shore except the AI - TI range where the out riggers do the job that a paddle brace does ( probably better )
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Fish Grylls
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Re: Missing Kayaker

Post by Fish Grylls »

Worth reiterating the safety basics........

1 Read and respect the weather forecast.
2 Always wear a Life vest - PFD
3 Carry a PLB in case of emergency.
Yakass
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Re: Missing Kayaker

Post by Yakass »

Hvalross wrote:Yakass you have nothing to defend in my eyes. I am not a crusader for or against Hobie.
I'm not white-knighting Hobie just in case that's the impression you have. As I said earlier I actually agree that there is room for improvement on Hobies and have said so many times, frequently on my old website, in my videos, to customers and even to the managing director of Hobie Aus as well. Thankfully they do tend to listen to feedback, which is partly why they have improved so much over the years. The PA in particular has improved dramatically from season to season. But it doesn't matter how much better it gets, it's never going to be a suitable off shore fishing kayak and thats a point I think is worth hammering home.
Our first trip to SWR Shane was using his PA and a couple of days were ugly - and one 1 day we spent a very short time on the water ( it was really ugly )a couple of things that showed and Shane was a very experienced PA operator that was how much work he had to put in to keep the kayak up right
Yep, Shane has pushed his PA past the limits of what I think a PA is safely capable of and it's worth noting here that he has experienced more mechanical issues with his drive/s than almost anyone I know. While it's fair to say that Shane spends more time on the water than most (by a large margin), it's probably also fair to suggest that it is just as much a consequence of pushing those limits. He is living proof that you can take a PA offshore but I would also argue that the volume of technical issues he experienced doing it suggests that he was flying pretty close to the sun.
Out of interest, how far in distance or travel time from land would you recommend the owner of a flat water yak like a PA limit themselves to? Assuming you are proficient at remounting, have all the safety gear and all that sort of thing.
I don't think there is any straight answer to that because the conditions on the day (off shore vs on shore winds for example) as well as the location in question and the fitness of the user will all play a role. The rougher the conditions not only is a capsize more likely but also that remounting will be more difficult. Too many variables to confidently provide a figure on a safe distance, but suffice to say that on a good day I'd be confident enough to pedal a PA from one side of the bay to the other, but on a rougher day I'd be hesitant to go much further than I could safely swim back if worst came to worst.
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shane
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Re: Missing Kayaker

Post by shane »

Yakass wrote:but I would also argue that the volume of technical issues he experienced doing it suggests that he was flying pretty close to the sun.
I'm purposely staying out of much this discussion but since drive issues have come up I'll just add one comment. I experience a similar rate of drive failures on the AI as I have on the PA (chains, idlers, cranks, pins, drums). I expect it's more a function of a big body (and longer cranks/bigger fins) pushing the drive past it's design limits while propelling heavy yaks (AI & PA). Someone who doesn't push a yak as hard would experience far fewer failures. I just accept it's likely to happen and come prepared to deal with it on the water.
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Yakass
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Re: Missing Kayaker

Post by Yakass »

I'd say you're absolutely right about that Shane. The bigger and heavier the boat the harder that drive is working and when one is pushing out through surf that is often when one tends to push hardest. Big boat + lots of gear + heavier user + challenging conditions = higher likelihood of failure. Never had a single failure ever here, but then again I'm a featherweight, don't take all that much gear and avoid surf at almost any cost, not to mention my drive is always in tip-top condition.
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laneends
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Re: Missing Kayaker

Post by laneends »

cheaterparts wrote: Dave on the other hand his revo a twice just snapped sideways and dumped him in the water - I think its a problem with peddle craft in general that with no paddle in hand you have nothing to lean on or brace so if the rudder comes out of the water they can quite quickly turn on you
Have to agree with this in a rough following seas the revo 16 is a lot better in paddle mode than pedal mode. Not just bracing but the ability to manoeuvre and course correct with a strong stern rudder is a lot more secure, this is a learned skill though (Back to the issue of learning to kayak first). Head in to wind and waves though pedal wins hands down.

As a side note in really rough water the rudder can be a distraction, as it can randomly come out of the water as cheater points out and it works against you if you are trying to spin a kayak on its axis. You are better to not rely on it. Rudders are really a straight line tracking to combat wind weather cocking and reduce need for corrective strokes.. In squirrely seas the immediate effect of waves can be a bigger issue than weather cocking, and you are forced to use corrective strokes anyway

Even the quest in the surf zone handles far better rudder up than down
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vicyak
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Re: Missing Kayaker

Post by vicyak »

This is what caused my issue when I tipped. about 20knots onshore wind. Just using the pedals and had the oar tucked away. Rudder came off the back of a wave and I was instantly side on to the next wave. Lesson learned there. However when the water gets a bit warmer going to book a lesson on how to control the kayak in chop.
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