marine safety regulations for kayaks

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cruiser
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Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks

Post by cruiser »

Hvalross wrote:
cruiser wrote:If you have taken in modest amounts of water meaning a few buckets more or less a bilge pump comes in handy ,on the other hand if the yak is sinking rapidly you are basically stuffed,I speak from first hand experience :roll:
Yep!
On the bright side of this tho is if there were no Regs a person getting into yakking without a background in boating say, would have nowhere at all to go for help.

The folks selling yaks outside of the sport, national sporting goods resellers don't give a stuff. Sure their marketing fella may turn up to a forum and sprout a lot of bull about how THEIR chain is a corporate citizen because they...( read here 5-10 minutes of total BS) and the shiny bums who have one eye on the politics and the other on either promotion or the weekend hear appropriate poly speak tick boxes being ticked and go back to sleep.

There is a thread regarding poly noodles etc as extra buoyancy. If a person on this Forum has not beefed up their total load of buoyancy after that discussion, what hope is there of getting through to folks with a safety message......Sadly Regs are the last minimalist resort....even if they are total piffle.

On a serious note, the bilge pump and bailing bucket are there to assist above deck deck. I for one will NOT be opening a hatch in the kind of seas that might be flooding below. Yak manufacturers need to be providing access for a hand operated pump because if I go drilling an appropriate size hole in my Hobie to plumb in such a device, my warranty is void...
Not haveing a go at the regs Andrew ,they are there for a good reason ,I will give a bit more info on what actually happened a bit later in the week
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Hvalross
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Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks

Post by Hvalross »

cruiser wrote:
Hvalross wrote:
cruiser wrote:If you have taken in modest amounts of water meaning a few buckets more or less a bilge pump comes in handy ,on the other hand if the yak is sinking rapidly you are basically stuffed,I speak from first hand experience :roll:


Yep!
On the bright side of this tho is if there were no Regs a person getting into yakking without a background in boating say, would have nowhere at all to go for help.

The folks selling yaks outside of the sport, national sporting goods resellers don't give a stuff. Sure their marketing fella may turn up to a forum and sprout a lot of bull about how THEIR chain is a corporate citizen because they...( read here 5-10 minutes of total BS) and the shiny bums who have one eye on the politics and the other on either promotion or the weekend hear appropriate poly speak tick boxes being ticked and go back to sleep.

There is a thread regarding poly noodles etc as extra buoyancy. If a person on this Forum has not beefed up their total load of buoyancy after that discussion, what hope is there of getting through to folks with a safety message......Sadly Regs are the last minimalist resort....even if they are total piffle.

On a serious note, the bilge pump and bailing bucket are there to assist above deck deck. I for one will NOT be opening a hatch in the kind of seas that might be flooding below. Yak manufacturers need to be providing access for a hand operated pump because if I go drilling an appropriate size hole in my Hobie to plumb in such a device, my warranty is void...
Not haveing a go at the regs Andrew ,they are there for a good reason ,I will give a bit more info on what actually happened a bit later in the week
:lol: Didn't think you were, I certainly am, in this area they are really really DUMB, only an idiot would ask for those items in a kayak of ANY sort...bloody stupid.
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Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks

Post by maverick »

Because yaks float by displacement rather than captive bouyancy like surfboards and surf skis they are just trying to make people aware that there is a potential for them to sink. Sure there are issue with keeping yaks afloat if they leak, but it is at better to try and make people think about it.

Discussions like this help create awareness of the limitations of yaks, but only to those that read these forums.

I have met the people making these rules and planning future rules and they have to plan for the "lowest common denominator" the punters who don't research or join forums like VYAK or even understand basic boating and weather information.

if they do nothing they are criticised, if they do something they are criticised.

The issue remains that if there is a death, even if we think the futard (my new word) should have known better, the Coroner will want to hold someone accountable or find out why something better wasn't done to prevent the death in the first place.
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Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks

Post by Smish »

maverick wrote:Because yaks float by displacement rather than captive bouyancy like surfboards and surf skis they are just trying to make people aware that there is a potential for them to sink. Sure there are issue with keeping yaks afloat if they leak, but it is at better to try and make people think about it.

Discussions like this help create awareness of the limitations of yaks, but only to those that read these forums.

I have met the people making these rules and planning future rules and they have to plan for the "lowest common denominator" the punters who don't research or join forums like VYAK or even understand basic boating and weather information.

if they do nothing they are criticised, if they do something they are criticised.

The issue remains that if there is a death, even if we think the futard (my new word) should have known better, the Coroner will want to hold someone accountable or find out why something better wasn't done to prevent the death in the first place.
Well said! :up:

Just to clarify on kayak buoyancy. Fibreglass sinks but most plastic yaks are made of some sort of polyethylene which floats, so even if the hull is completely full of water it shouldn't sink... having said that, add a few SLAs without extra buoyancy then a plastic yak may still end up on the bottom.

I installed an electric bilge pump because I don't think it's practical to manually pump or bail from an open hatch in big seas, although I still keep a bailer as backup. The electric bilge pump empties the yak in less than a minute with no need to open the hatch.
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Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks

Post by Hvalross »

maverick wrote:Because yaks float by displacement rather than captive bouyancy like surfboards and surf skis they are just trying to make people aware that there is a potential for them to sink. Sure there are issue with keeping yaks afloat if they leak, but it is at better to try and make people think about it.

Discussions like this help create awareness of the limitations of yaks, but only to those that read these forums.

I have met the people making these rules and planning future rules and they have to plan for the "lowest common denominator" the punters who don't research or join forums like VYAK or even understand basic boating and weather information.

if they do nothing they are criticised, if they do something they are criticised.

The issue remains that if there is a death, even if we think the futard (my new word) should have known better, the Coroner will want to hold someone accountable or find out why something better wasn't done to prevent the death in the first place.
Bloody stupid, is bloody stupid regardless of what it is dressed up as, and tokenism is more dangerous than inaction. In this case what those retards you have met have in fact done is put in place two silly requirements that will have the effect of misleading the very people they seek to target, into a belief that they are doing something positive. Regulate the manufacturer, set minimum bouncy standards.........it will not happen, why.......because we live in a farce based society driven by business dollars, profit and greed, where a POLITICAL outcome prevails over actual need.

Try hand bailing and keeping a yak into the sea.
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Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks

Post by Jordo »

Yako wrote:I will throw the gauntlet down to anyone who kayaks in open water to try with a manual bilge pump, sponge or bucket to try and bail your yak while you are in 1-2 + meter waves or more, choppy conditions etc.
Good luck trying to keep your yak into the waves so you don't get broad sided while you have one hand on the pump, bucket, sponge etc :laughing1:
Mission already accomplished, In rough conditions is when it is needed most. I have to regularly sponge out water in bigger swell, not to mention I've recently had problems with my rudder leading to water leaking into my rear hatch. Offshore the other week in less then ideal conditions I had to spin around, stradle the yak, shimmy down and sponge out a good few liters of water, all on a yak that is 63cm wide, while being lifted up and down about 3m by quite a steep swell.
Also no matter how good your hatch lids are, nothing is 100% waterproof. If you go offshore regularly you will be getting some water in the hull. Getting back in down at Portland a few months ago, me and Shane spent a few minutes sponging out water from our hulls - it was a tad worrying how much there was.
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Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks

Post by Wind Waker »

Are you for real? You call it stupid because it is hard to do in heavy seas.
It might be dead calm and you have a small crack in which case a bailer may make the difference. It might be an open canoe in heavy rain. It might be a hobie style kayak with a water line puncture from god knows what where a hand pump is ideal.
Using your reasoning then don't bother with pumps on boats because a green water wave will fill you with more water then a pump can handle and you would need self draining decks.
It may not be ideal in all situations but its a damn good start. Something is better that nothing in this situation.
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Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks

Post by Jordo »

Hvalross wrote: Try hand bailing and keeping a yak into the sea.
If your yak is half decent then there is no need to keep your yak into the sea. A good yak with a half capable yakker can handle swell and chop from all angles - and you need to be able to just to go offshore. I just focus on the bailing (usually sponging) aspect and as long as I rock with the waves (working with the yaks secondary stability) then there is nothing to worry about - this is surprisingly easy to do.
IMHO the regulations In place to prevent kayaks from sinking are good, provided people know there kayaks and kayaking in general. Unfortunately you can't regulate against stupidity.... and there will always be people going out with no idea and/or experience. For example, where an experienced person may just negotiate around the yak and sponge out any water, someone with poor ability may end up flipping the yak with a hatch open - leading to two vastly different outcomes with the exact same gear.
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Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks

Post by Jordo »

Wind Waker wrote:Are you for real? You call it stupid because it is hard to do in heavy seas.
It might be dead calm and you have a small crack in which case a bailer may make the difference. It might be an open canoe in heavy rain. It might be a hobie style kayak with a water line puncture from god knows what where a hand pump is ideal.
Using your reasoning then don't bother with pumps on boats because a green water wave will fill you with more water then a pump can handle and you would need self draining decks.
It may not be ideal in all situations but its a damn good start. Something is better that nothing in this situation.
Agreed
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Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks

Post by shane »

I've only had to pump out my yak once while out on the open water. That was on the trip where I caught my first tuna off Cape Bridgewater in 2.5m swells plus breaking wind waves on top in a moderate southwesterly. I'd put the tuna in the front hatch tub which caused the front to bury deeper into breaking waves (before I'd upgraded seals) so that I soon found the front tub full of water and quite a bit inside the hull as well. Despite the conditions I was able to easily pump out the water using my $10 manual bilge pump without taking any more on board. So I wouldn't get carried away about not being able to pump out in rough conditions, you can. Just get a bilge pump (manual or electric), carry it on board and practice using it. Oh and stop all the useless complaining about what are just sensible regulations that are there to keep us safe.
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