bonji007 wrote:Reading the regulations. Do you rely need a bulge pump on a kayak? Will a bucket not be enough?
At first glance the requirement does seem a bit odd. What keeps your yak afloat? the solid buoyancy stuffed into the hull or the hull itself. The cockpit may have scuppers, or if a pedal craft the Mirage is totally open so that is not what the Regs seeks to address.
What happens if a hatch leaks or is damaged and lost. Water can then enter the hull itself. I am thinking that the hull is what I want to be able to keep free of water. No electric bilge you can carry will pump enough water to beat waves washing over an open damaged hatch. You MAY be able to beat a leaky hatch for a while but try to pedal, hand pump a hull and steer.......5 maybe 10 minutes at best for most...
Ass covering at its squalid best, initiated by do gooders and wan*ers, and nuff, nuffs that like to sit on Committees pontificating.
If my PA is compromised the ONLY thing that is of ANY value to me at all is the buoyancy material I add myself. the silly bits of open foam that are supplied by Hobie are at best a token effort.
Having said that I have a hand bilge pump. I also carry a collapsible bucket (and spade) to make sandcastles on that palm covered beach I will wash up on!! because NO bucket of ANY RATIONAL CAPACITY can be put into any of the hatches on my Hobie.
When the Water Police come to check on me I have all that is required, and they will leave having done their duty, and I will get a warm and fuzzy feeling for being a good little mindless battler.
What a farce!!
Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks
Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 11:49
by cheaterparts
bonji007 wrote:Reading the regulations. Do you rely need a bulge pump on a kayak? Will a bucket not be enough?
not just looking at the Regs - but just looking at your own safety how would you go if your kayak was taking on water ( split hull - cracked scupper ) and you are out on the water
Can you bail your hull on the water with a bucket or some other bailer , which could include a jumbo sponge if so that should be enough
however many kayaks it's much easier to use a hand bulge pump which are quite cheap and work really well
it's also worth noting that many kayaks dont have easy access to the hull to remove water and getting to the front hatch is quite unstabile on the water with many craft even worse when the hull has water in it
an example would be my own Prowler 4.3 getting to the front hatch on the water with water in the hull would be near impossible
is std form there are no other places to bail or pump water out of the hull
the above hatch was fitted for both my battery storage and to access the hull on the water if it needed to be pumped out
the only way to pump this out would be a bulge pump as there is little room for any kind of bailer
So it's allways worth looking past the Regs and make sure you stay safe
Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks
Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 13:35
by Hvalross
cheaterparts wrote:
bonji007 wrote:Reading the regulations. Do you rely need a bulge pump on a kayak? Will a bucket not be enough?
not just looking at the Regs - but just looking at your own safety how would you go if your kayak was taking on water ( split hull - cracked scupper ) and you are out on the water
Can you bail your hull on the water with a bucket or some other bailer , which could include a jumbo sponge if so that should be enough
however many kayaks it's much easier to use a hand bulge pump which are quite cheap and work really well
it's also worth noting that many kayaks dont have easy access to the hull to remove water and getting to the front hatch is quite unstabile on the water with many craft even worse when the hull has water in it
an example would be my own Prowler 4.3 getting to the front hatch on the water with water in the hull would be near impossible
is std form there are no other places to bail or pump water out of the hull
[youtube]BHiOxoIYu7Y[/youtube
the above hatch was fitted for both my battery storage and to access the hull on the water if it needed to be pumped out
the only way to pump this out would be a bulge pump as there is little room for any kind of bailer
So it's allways worth looking past the Regs and make sure you stay safe
X2
Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks
Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 14:25
by cruiser
Hvalross wrote:
cheaterparts wrote:
bonji007 wrote:Reading the regulations. Do you rely need a bulge pump on a kayak? Will a bucket not be enough?
not just looking at the Regs - but just looking at your own safety how would you go if your kayak was taking on water ( split hull - cracked scupper ) and you are out on the water
Can you bail your hull on the water with a bucket or some other bailer , which could include a jumbo sponge if so that should be enough
however many kayaks it's much easier to use a hand bulge pump which are quite cheap and work really well
it's also worth noting that many kayaks dont have easy access to the hull to remove water and getting to the front hatch is quite unstabile on the water with many craft even worse when the hull has water in it
an example would be my own Prowler 4.3 getting to the front hatch on the water with water in the hull would be near impossible
is std form there are no other places to bail or pump water out of the hull
[youtube]BHiOxoIYu7Y[/youtube
If you have taken on a modest amount of water in the yak and meaning a few buckets thereabouts a bilge pump comes in handy,on the other hand if massive amounts of water enter into your yak and it starts to sink you are basically stuffed .I speak from experience
the above hatch was fitted for both my battery storage and to access the hull on the water if it needed to be pumped out
the only way to pump this out would be a bulge pump as there is little room for any kind of bailer
So it's allways worth looking past the Regs and make sure you stay safe
X2
Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks
Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 14:30
by cruiser
If you have taken in modest amounts of water meaning a few buckets more or less a bilge pump comes in handy ,on the other hand if the yak is sinking rapidly you are basically stuffed,I speak from first hand experience
Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks
Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 14:36
by Yako
I will throw the gauntlet down to anyone who kayaks in open water to try with a manual bilge pump, sponge or bucket to try and bail your yak while you are in 1-2 + meter waves or more, choppy conditions etc.
Good luck trying to keep your yak into the waves so you don't get broad sided while you have one hand on the pump, bucket, sponge etc
In mild conditions fair enough.
If you can't access your hull the law requires a pump of sorts. If you're running a 12V 7 or 9AH AGM Battery it's really no biggie to have a simple bilge pump with an inline fuse. Pumps only cost around $20-$25 plus an outlet point and some tubing.
The hand pumps got a good flow rate (Anaconda etc sell) but it does tie up one hand.
Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks
Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 16:06
by shane
There are some mods on here for a adding a bung in the hull that allows a bilge pump to be inserted to pump out the hull without risk of getting further water ingress through open hatches etc. Otherwise work out in advance where you can store then access and use a bilge pump most effectively so your prepared if you need it.
Another consideration is to add bouyancy foam to the inside of the hull of your yak. Hobie do this on many models (including my PA) so that even if it did get a major hole it would still float (and give you something to cling onto) even when full of water.
Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks
Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 16:14
by cheaterparts
Yako wrote:I will throw the gauntlet down to anyone who kayaks in open water to try with a manual bilge pump, sponge or bucket to try and bail your yak while you are in 1-2 + meter waves or more, choppy conditions etc.
Good luck trying to keep your yak into the waves so you don't get broad sided while you have one hand on the pump, bucket, sponge etc
In mild conditions fair enough.
just a thought Rich if you go off shore maybe you should use a kayak that you can sit side on to a wave - much less to laugh at
Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks
Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 16:51
by tonystott
Hvalross wrote:
bonji007 wrote:SNIP
If my PA is compromised the ONLY thing that is of ANY value to me at all is the buoyancy material I add myself. the silly bits of open foam that are supplied by Hobie are at best a token effort.
I believe you have misunderstood the purpose of the "silly bits of open foam". Hobie adds the >closed-cell< foam to ensure that an EMPTY kayak will not sink even if filled with water. This is done to meet regulations (CE and US Coast Guard I believe). I have added pool noodles inside my TI, enough to al least keep enough buoyancy to enable me to remain on the (awash) hull.
Re: marine safety regulations for kayaks
Posted: 20 Dec 2015, 17:26
by Hvalross
cruiser wrote:If you have taken in modest amounts of water meaning a few buckets more or less a bilge pump comes in handy ,on the other hand if the yak is sinking rapidly you are basically stuffed,I speak from first hand experience
Yep!
On the bright side of this tho is if there were no Regs a person getting into yakking without a background in boating say, would have nowhere at all to go for help.
The folks selling yaks outside of the sport, national sporting goods resellers don't give a stuff. Sure their marketing fella may turn up to a forum and sprout a lot of bull about how THEIR chain is a corporate citizen because they...( read here 5-10 minutes of total BS) and the shiny bums who have one eye on the politics and the other on either promotion or the weekend hear appropriate poly speak tick boxes being ticked and go back to sleep.
There is a thread regarding poly noodles etc as extra buoyancy. If a person on this Forum has not beefed up their total load of buoyancy after that discussion, what hope is there of getting through to folks with a safety message......Sadly Regs are the last minimalist resort....even if they are total piffle.
On a serious note, the bilge pump and bailing bucket are there to assist above deck deck. I for one will NOT be opening a hatch in the kind of seas that might be flooding below. Yak manufacturers need to be providing access for a hand operated pump because if I go drilling an appropriate size hole in my Hobie to plumb in such a device, my warranty is void...
